Army of Mom

So this is how liberty dies ... with thunderous applause.

11.08.2004

Another shining example of why I haven't been to mass lately

Apparently the Catholic church is at it again. These people just can't leave well enough alone. This gun-toting priest was defrocked for arming himself. God forbid (pun intended) that the man be able to defend himself or his parishioners should someone with bad intentions come to the church.

I'm so disillusioned with the Catholic church these days. I may have to wander back to an Episcopal church for a little Catholic-light.

19 Comments:

  • At 12:13 PM, November 08, 2004, Blogger Bane said…

    Betcha Episscopals can't carry guns, either. Just go get a real religion. If I had to be part of an organized religion, I'd probly go Baptist.

     
  • At 12:53 PM, November 08, 2004, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Bane, you realize the baptists are anti-alcohol right?

     
  • At 1:14 PM, November 08, 2004, Blogger Army of Mom said…

    I grew up Baptist and ran as fast as I could to another religion when I grew up. I hate that fire and brimstone, hypocritical stuff. Maybe it was just my church, but it was awful.

     
  • At 1:28 PM, November 08, 2004, Blogger Uzz said…

    I grew up in Waco...home of the Baylor Bears and the anti-dancing Baptist coalition...trust me...you don't want that scene. The Episcopal Church is great if you want all the ritual of the Catholic Church without all the bureaucracy, though every church has a little bit of that! If you want a nice balance, then check out the Methodist Church...they tend to be pretty laid back.

     
  • At 1:52 PM, November 08, 2004, Blogger gone_1 said…

    You want scary? Three words: Church of Christ I grew up in it and went to a CoC university. Luckily, I'm better now.

    AoM went to a Baptist university and I went to a CoC one. We like to joke that was money well spent. :)

     
  • At 3:15 PM, November 08, 2004, Blogger Uzz said…

    Kat: You are DEAD ON about CoC!!! It is stunning to read some of their beliefs!

     
  • At 3:18 PM, November 08, 2004, Blogger Bane said…

    My wife attends a Foursquare Gospel church. I attend the Church of the NFL most Sundays...the rest of the time I'm a Devout Sleepinist. From reading y'alls comments, it would seem that the consensus is that church is okay, were it not for all those pesky rules, and stuff. Seems like you'd all be flocking to a Unitarian church. Well, from what I've seen of Episscopaliens, they fit the bill of 'all the ritual, less of the guilt' that born and raised Bible thumpers who have become dissatisfied seek.

     
  • At 3:34 PM, November 08, 2004, Blogger Astrosmith said…

    I'm curious as to why y'all have such an objection to the Church of Christ.

    Yes, I go to one myself, and I probably know why you don't like it but I was wondering. I wasn't raised CoC, and I have had problems with some other men who were, and are very judgmental about people in other churches.

     
  • At 4:07 PM, November 08, 2004, Blogger Bane said…

    Yeah, Astro, that's the main reason I don't go to church. I'm like "Damn, people, don't you all use the same damn book?" In the interests of full disclosure, I was raised Seventh Day Adventist, which is probably second only to Catholicism for fucking you up as a kid. It took me years of athiesm (and worse) to get my shit even as straight as it is now. And lots of spiritual duct-tape.

     
  • At 4:24 PM, November 08, 2004, Blogger Army of Mom said…

    Where do I begin? I grew up Southern Baptist and remember being in tears every Sunday - not because I was touched by the word of God, but because they had me scared that I was going to hell. Now, granted, it did make me a goody-two-shoes, but it just wasn't real good for my mental well-being, I don't think.

    As far as the Church of Christ goes, I grew up with this aunt who tormented me because I "bathed" with boys by swimming in public. She used to call me names for wearing shorts - not Daisy Dukes, but bermuda shorts. She would make trampy references about it. They don't allow musical instruments in the church. Those are the three things that hit me most.

    Catholic church is just so messed up, I could go on and on. The whole no women as leaders thing burns me up. The fact that they make you pay to go to Sunday School and vacation Bible school also frustrates the hell out of me. On top of that, they are open to members only AND then if there are any slots after that, then we can allow outsiders in. I had to jump through hoops to be allowed to join the faith and have my first marriage annulled so I could be considered married to AoD. Just a bunch of crap.

    I don't mind following religious tenets of faith. The whole 10 commandments things is ok with me. It isn't because I don't want any governing rules, it is just that some of these rules are so ridiculous that I have a hard time following the church.

     
  • At 4:48 PM, November 08, 2004, Blogger Bane said…

    That's the other main reason I don't attend my wife's church, they allow women leaders...even have a female co-pastor. Ugh, That's an abomination to me.

     
  • At 4:56 PM, November 08, 2004, Blogger Astrosmith said…

    OK, so you don't like the anti-"mixed bathing" crowd, the anti-"girls wearing shorts" crowd, and the anti-"instrumental music" crowd.

    That's cool. I think the first two are silly also. No one that I know at my church still cares about that crap. As for the instrumental music...well, I think the whole issue is silly as well, but I have gotten used to and prefer singing the hymns a cappella.

    I would not have been in a CoC back 20 or more years ago. It's become much more "liberal" since then. LOL! Liberal CoC's are still some of the most "conservative" churches around!!!

    Also, we have a kitchen in the church building, as well as a big room for our youth group, who actually listens to Christian rock and stuff like that. (But not in worship service.)

    I can't stand churches that have little rock groups up front for worship services. The point of worship is to worship God, not entertain the congregation.

    Well, YMMV.

     
  • At 5:11 PM, November 08, 2004, Blogger Army of Mom said…

    What is YMMV? I'm out of it by this time of day.

    Glad to know that most of that stuff isn't an issue. I just remember my aunt making me feel dirty. I used to run and hide if I was wearing shorts and she stopped by our house. That is sad and often times all it takes to form a bad opinion of a religion is one person.

    And, Bane - ptthppthtppttttt!!!! I prefer to worship with a male priest, pastor, whatever, because that is what I'm accustomed to and like, but I don't see why women can't be spiritual leaders.

     
  • At 7:06 PM, November 08, 2004, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I go to a non denominational church. Just the teachings of Jesus. Ah, the joys of a college town. FIrst mass isnt until 10am, and there are services at all the local churches until 8:30pm. Its nice. So even the Sleep-inists can go and not lose sleep!! :)

    ~Alli

     
  • At 7:17 PM, November 08, 2004, Blogger Bane said…

    Sorry, Alli, I just can't stand all that judgmentalism in churches. Judge judge judge, that's all they do, and like, judging is bad, and hurts my feelings and stuff.

     
  • At 10:45 PM, November 08, 2004, Blogger Uzz said…

    I can only come from a viewpoint of friends or ex co-workers that were in CoC, but I had a lot of problems with them when it turned to religious talk. My main problem was that when they found out I was an Episcopal, they would ask me if I had ever thought about becoming a Christian...I would say that I was and then they would tell me how Catholics and Episcopals were not Christian religions. Now I know that these statements come from a point of ignorance, but it always seemed to come from CoC people. I would ask them what makes a Christian and they would say that it was when a person accepts Christ as their Lord and Saviour. I would explain to them that I agreed, but they never seemed to want to listen to any sort of reasoning.

    Their Mainline Group, which makes up the majority of CoC, does not believe in allowing its adherents to fellowship with other Christians that do not follow their doctrines, which to me is not really what Christ was all about. Like any denomination, there is a structural bureaucracy that will differ from church to church and I don't want to generalize that all CoC are the same, but I have been told by CoC members things like: People with tattoos cannot be saved and that they have the mark of the beast upon them. (I don't have any, but I have several friends that are Christian missionaries, so they might be a bit bummed out by that news). Overall they tend to be very much like Baptists in the "fire and brimstone" department...I don't think fear is the best tool one can utilize when it comes to teaching the message of Christ. I am pretty sure God does not want us to be anxiety-ridden in our love for Him...seems a little Old Testament to me...I thought we worked this out through JC in the New Testament.

    To be honest, I have no problem with CoC except for some of the grief I have received. I truly believe that so many of these Christian denominations have become too interested in how we differ, when we should be focused on the ways we are alike. A lot of Christian groups tend to complicate the real message...Christ died for our salvation...period end of story...if you truly believe this in your heart then that is what matters...the rest is minutia. I am not trying to be preachy...just trying to make a point that Christians have more in common with each other than they realize, but like anything else, its human nature for bureaucracy to spoil anything good.

    As for different denominations, I pretty much went to the Episcopal Church for awhile, but I found that I wanted to learn more about my faith rather than just following doctrine, so I have been going off and on to a non-denominational Bible church, where they are more interested in teaching than focusing about what to demand from their adherents. Trust me...its not perfect...there is too much in the way of praise music, but it fits my criteria right now and if I am meant to go elsewhere, then it will happen. Anyway...I have probably bored way too many people here, so I will end this:-)

     
  • At 12:04 AM, November 09, 2004, Blogger Astrosmith said…

    Well, I have no experience with the more extreme examples of churches of Christ that you all seem to have. I have gone to exactly two churches since joining a CoC, one in Houston and one in Garland. Neither one practices the kind of crazy stuff that you have seen at others. I would not be part of a church that would teach those sorts of things.

    What attracted me to the CoC as I see it is the desire to follow, as closely and as sensibly as possible, the writings in the New Testament. How better to learn how to run the church and worship Jesus and God than the scriptures themselves? Of course, now and in the past, I know of certain passages taken out of context that were applied very literally. So it goes.

    The biggest problem I have with many other people in our church is their belief that only those with the proper baptism are saved. From my own reading of scripture, yes, baptism is important, but it is God's grace through our faith in Him that saves. Baptism should come after, just as taking Communion, giving, caring for widows and orphans, and all the rest.

    Well, whatever. I have actually had arguments with the other men in my sunday school class about this, and even one time with an elder. Those were fun. I am not going to be judgemental of others. Like Bane said, it's bad and stuff. I'll leave the judging up to God.

    And, by the way (btw), YMMV means "your mileage may vary".

     
  • At 7:35 AM, November 09, 2004, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    What about the church of the outdoors? I prefer being out in the woods on Sundays.

    Army of Dad

     
  • At 8:39 AM, November 10, 2004, Blogger Army of Mom said…

    The whole "being saved" issue is something that is ingrained in these children. I used to be a big proponent of it and I used to witness my cute little butt off to anyone who would listen. It was a sore spot for me before I joined the Episcopal and Catholic faiths. Yes, yes, I have played religion roulette as an adult. But, I believe that baptism needs to be done, but when it is done isn't the issue - if you have Christ in your heart, that is the important thing. My priest is so incredible. He taught me that there is a facet of the faith that you can be baptised by having a willing heart (I'm paraphrasing here) and that the water is only a part of it. If you have died without being dunked, dipped or doused in some fashion - but want in your heart to have been baptised and you believe, it is as good as baptism. Also, ANYONE with faith can baptise you. My mother-in-law and I have joked that we're going to baptise my Jewish nephew when mom and dad aren't looking. I have some Holy Water that the priest blessed for me, so ... one day I hope to have the little dipper thing by my door to cross myself everytime we leave the house or enter it. Right now, it is my security blanket if I ever need it for a sick friend or relative.

     

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